Sartharion 10 man details

[shaabutie]

Hey guys,

1st off many congrats on your 10 man 3 drake kill. Its quite the accomplishment. I play Shaabutie on US-Firetree. My guild has done everything except kill malygos on heroic. Got him to about 7% but hit the enrage timer. But i digress.

I was wondering if you had any pointers on doing the 3 drake thing. I want to know how you handle that much commotion going on with only 10 people.

I would assume you have the MT on sarth. Feral druid on the drakes, Do you have a DK on the whelps and fire elemental? Also are you doing a 2 tank, 2 healer, 6 dps setup?

I know you guys probably get a ton of questions but any pointers you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you and best of luck in your future raiding accomplishments.

Shaabutie
US-Firetree
<Relax>

[Safari]

I think a fair amount of things are common knowledge at the moment, some others you will have to figure out yourself.

To answer some of your questions:
- Yes, we have a DK on small adds
- No, we did not have the druid on the drakes (think long and hard about this one)
- 2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 dps

This fight is about two things:
- dps, the timing of killing things is critical
- healing, your healers need to understand when and where the big damagespikes are coming and adapt to this

Good luck

[shaabutie]

Thank you much. That helps out a ton. We cant wait to give this a go tomorrow night. Ill let you know how it works out.

[Sloe]

Massive gz guys, attempted him on 10man with 2 drakes up and failed miserably, the thought of 3 up hurts my mind.

Greetings from glasgow :>

[karm]

10 man 2 drakes is also still pretty difficult but the 3rd drake adds something alot more irritating to the fight :D (and what most are wiping to for sure).

greetings from DUNDEE.

[Goguma]

First of all, congratulation on your 3 drake kill guys.

I watched your video about 10 times now to figure out the fight details because my guild is going to try it pretty soon.

One thing that I'm still confused about is the order of the drakes.

I noticed that drakes join the fight one at a time,

1. Are they on a timer? or does the next drake join the fight when the other one is low health.

2. Did you kill the acolyte for Shadron? I didn't notice your dps going into the portal for him.

3. Does the 3 drakes always come out in same order? Tenebron -> Shadron ->Vesperon?


I'm sorry if these questions seems too stupid. We only killed him once and our guild was too tired to attempt anything challenging so we just did it with all drakes down, but this week we are actually going to try.

[Ruk]

First of all, congratulation on your 3 drake kill guys.

I watched your video about 10 times now to figure out the fight details because my guild is going to try it pretty soon.

One thing that I'm still confused about is the order of the drakes.

I noticed that drakes join the fight one at a time,

1. Are they on a timer? or does the next drake join the fight when the other one is low health.

2. Did you kill the acolyte for Shadron? I didn't notice your dps going into the portal for him.

3. Does the 3 drakes always come out in same order? Tenebron -> Shadron ->Vesperon?


I'm sorry if these questions seems too stupid. We only killed him once and our guild was too tired to attempt anything challenging so we just did it with all drakes down, but this week we are actually going to try.

1. Yes, they are on a timer so you can't be much behind on DPS.

2. No, we waited until after Shadron to kill the acolyte. It's healable as you can see.

3. Yes.

Not stupid questions and good luck :)

[sparkygg]

the key to this fight is to equip: Rukli

and your sorted!

[urbanmoo]

congratz on the great kill boys and girls :)

an off topic question :

as you all know, some of the jewelcrafting pattern are missing atm
i saw Sco is a JC and i was wondering,if the achievement unlocks some of them (like loremaster do for tailors)
am asking this mainly cause the new purple gem is called Twilight Opal

/cheers

[Nedri]

Hello guys!
First of all, congratz, amazing job.
I have another question for you, hope u can asnswer ;)
Watched video like ~100 times and don't know that -
What do you guys doing with fire elementas?
1 Person dealing with them or just when they spawn nuke?
We tried with hunter on adds = no enough.
We tried nuke them all = drake was going too slow and we had him at 30% when second landed.

And one more question - whelps.
Our tank on drakes (warrior) took them, mage did frost nova, but he can't keep them longer then 10 sec and he dies because of debuff. And tips?:)

Thanks for aswers!
(ah, our team 2x holy priest, 1 x shaman resto, 1hunt (bm), prot pala(boss mt), war (adds mt), 2x mage 1x lock 1x retri pala)

/wave
Nedri

EDIT Sorry for grama :S

[sparkygg]

Without revealing all the cheese

Deathknight = http://www.worldallchocolates.com/pimages/9703_kinder.jpg

They bring 3 surprises!

[dirges]

hi guys, GJ on that awesome video. I had a couple questions concerning tanks.

Did your tanks wear any fire resist gear? I'm guessing Oranoss must've. And if he did wear FR, which ones? the badge gear? or the aldor crafted set. i would guess the aldor crafted set because of the sockets, but the 70 badge FR gear has higher armor and resists.

any help in regards to this would be nice. thanks.

[Ruk]

No one in the raide wore any Fire Resistance-gear, only totem/aura (can't remember) and Motw.

[Protec]

Dont try it with FR Gear for each dragon that dies Sartharion will get a Buff that increases his physical hits by 25%. In FR Gear your tank will die before the other can take over.

[dirges]

thank you very much. i noticed that Oranoss had 45k hp after the -25% hp debuff was gone. O.o wow.

[PaperTowel]

I've watched your video etc. and I have a pretty good idea on how to achieve this battle. We're attempting it right now, but my guild claims that I take ALOT of dps as the deatknight, tanking/killing the fire adds and the whelps etc. Was your DK taking any extra tanking loot? He wasnt using anti-magic shell at all as I noticed, but lots of icebound fortitude, and he was unholy say you say.

And what are the 3 'surprises' death knights do, is it just the 3 listed below? Or is icebound fortitude and maybe lichborne?

-Unholy Blight
-Pestilience
-Diseases in general?

If you can give any enlightenment on it! Please! Thanks guys.

[karm]

I've watched your video etc. and I have a pretty good idea on how to achieve this battle. We're attempting it right now, but my guild claims that I take ALOT of dps as the deatknight, tanking/killing the fire adds and the whelps etc. Was your DK taking any extra tanking loot? He wasnt using anti-magic shell at all as I noticed, but lots of icebound fortitude, and he was unholy say you say.

And what are the 3 'surprises' death knights do, is it just the 3 listed below? Or is icebound fortitude and maybe lichborne?

-Unholy Blight
-Pestilience
-Diseases in general?

If you can give any enlightenment on it! Please! Thanks guys.


Didnt have Lichborne in this spec.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMVZZfghI0cogc0Mcsut was the spec I was playing.

Main points: No pets (gargoyle/ghoul) - they are retarded in this encounter, No desecration (slows fire elementals into lava wave enraging them) and rest is pretty self explanitory.

Your main roles on this fight:
1) tanking tenebron's whelps
2) tanking all fire elementals
3) keeping ebon plaguebringer on each drake/boss
4) maximum damage output on each drake/add
5) minimising damage taken by yourself

The reason you dont see me using anti magic shell is because im always using IB fort as my main defensive CD - AMS is FAR better in an 'oh shit' situation as its absorbing 90%+- of damage instead of 50%. Very good to keep for enraged elementals (which Hunters can also tranq) and sometimes you cant help them enraging as they spawn during lava waves.. just happens ! Its just safer, especially considering the randomness of the adds. Sometimes we would get whelp spawns without having more then 3 adds up, sometimes your looking at around 15 up before whelps. VERY irritating - hence conservative cooldown use.

Basic way i was doing it: Playing with the spec above, in max avoidance/sta whilst maximising AP (basic mix of dps/tank gear). Basically just keeping the above 5 points in mind, make sure you have vigilance because your TPS can be ridiculous. Keep all adds on you, pick them up as priority, 2nd priority is to be facing everything your tanking at all times keeping bloodrunes on cd for blade barrier and max avoidance - watch your hp as they can do bad burst so ready to use cd's. When moving from lava waves you will notice you have to move to the very far edge of each wave to avoid the shit slow trailing adds enraging which will only cause issues in the longrun.

Oh and alternate pestillences from add to add to keep diseases up on all always without having to use ps/it so you can get as many scourges in on drakes as possible (also helps keep bloodrunes on cd). Certainly in our raid setup I was the main dps on adds (think i even ended up at 4k+ dps with mainly tank gear on, which shows sheer amount of aoe involved) so dont underestimate keeping all diseases on every add as wandering plague is dangerous! Also a Priest can use devouring plague on your target (when your aoeing say the whelps for example, or large amounts of elementals) and your pestillence will spread it to every mob. Very well known - but in this situation its extremely useful on DPS. Also if you can get it on the drakes your looking at extra personal dps for you.

if healers are saying you take too much damage - then make sure your keeping what i said in mind, the dmg is spiky, make sure you have your blade barrier up and shoot for over 50% avoidance with barrier up and you should be fine. Just knowing when to use cd's is all that matters so good communication with your healer - you will require alot of healing sometimes and very little at others. have a healer whos main job is to heal you but also can help on other things when you let him know, warn him when damage spikes are imminent.

not everything here is crucial, but some of the things we learned that made it easier and hope it can help you.

good luck!

[sub]

Hey, been looking for awhile to try and find the dps requirements for this fight and havent had much luck to find a group number.
Alot of the forums ive looked at say 25man naxx gear is what most of them used
question is, what should the raids DPS be at in order to have the first drake down before the third lands?
thanks!

btw grats on the kill! nice and clean :)

[Ruk]

Hey, been looking for awhile to try and find the dps requirements for this fight and havent had much luck to find a group number.
Alot of the forums ive looked at say 25man naxx gear is what most of them used
question is, what should the raids DPS be at in order to have the first drake down before the third lands?
thanks!

btw grats on the kill! nice and clean :)

The dps requirement is pretty obvious because you won't be able to survive two adds + Sartharion for a very long time. What you should aim for is killing Tenebron before he can spawn whelps twice (it's doable with two spawns, but it makes things a lot easier with only one spawn), then he should be dead about the same time as Shadron is landing. I reccomend heroism right after the first lava wave on Tenebron, that should give you the best effect of it.

Now I guess it depends on group composition (two or three healers), but it should be healable to kill off Shadron without going inside and remove the shield - it will be tight though with two healers. You won't finish Shadron before Vesperon lands, this is time for cd usage for your add-tank. We had Vesperon landing when Shadron was on 50ish percent in the video. It's really up to your healers if they can keep up at that stage (keep saving the MT while healing the raid and the add tank).

Also, if you can let whelp+elemental tank (DK for us) do pretty much all the AoE by himself (maybe call for one AoE after Tenebron) and rest single-target, it should be a lot better. Almost any class can leech on the dmgmeter by doing some AoE early, but it won't really help you finishing off the adds faster.

When it comes to gear I think we still had quite a few pieces from heroics (at least I had), but your tanks really need high HP. Druids are excellent because they can stack stamina and still be critimmmune. I'd say anything less than 40-42k on your MT is undergeared. The more the better, basically.

[dirges]

hi, another question about Sartharion =p

if you do sartharion with 2 drakes up, does the timing on their landings change?
ex. leaving up tenebron/shadron. tenebron lands first obviously. and then shadron at about 45seconds later.

if we were to kill shadron and do the encounter with tenebron/vesperon up, will that mean that after tenebron lands
we'll have 90sec til vesperon shows up? or will he land at the 45sec increment?

trying to sort things out beforehand. just to be a little more prepared. thanks =)

[xus]

Hey,

Thank you for making this great video, I'm about to take a group there to try this with three drakes, and it has been a great source of information while preparing.

I have one question, that I couldn't quite figure out by myself.

In the phase where both Shadron and Vesperon are alive, as well as the Vesperon Disciple I see the Twilight Torment debuff up on Protec all the time, but sometimes it's not there on Oranoss. At first, I thought this was a UI bug or something, but when I looked into the Flame Breaths during that periods, I noticed that the ones where Oranoss didn't have the debuff were around 15k, but when he did have the debuff on him the Flame Breath hit him for around 30k, so it does seem to matter.

It looks like the debuff is gone when the dragons are tanked on the other side of the isle, so the MT can just outrange the Twilight Torment. I was wondering if you can confirm this, and if you were actually used this as a part of your tactics, or if this kinda happened coincidentely (is it a reliable way to avoid the huge dmg spikes).

Kind regards, Xus

[Protec]

to dirges
the timing is always the same on the drakes doesnt matter which order on 2 or 3 drakes.

to xus
coincidentely (but i dont know if it realy works)

[Snoozo]

to dirges
the timing is always the same on the drakes doesnt matter which order on 2 or 3 drakes.

to xus
coincidentely (but i dont know if it realy works)


About the twilligt torment, as far as i've been able to notice, its either a once every 5-10s update, or a proximity to the actual disciple inside the realm. if you figure this out, let me know :)

[Elix]

I've finally had a chance to download this in high res to see what's exactly happening.

From what I've seen, the challenge here is getting past the 2nd drake without the MT dying to the flame breath. Managing exactly when to pop divine shield or guardian spirit at the right moments seems to be the key to success. The rest of the fight demands people to not be retarded and move out of fissures and flames. And finally, there's an obvious gear requirement. Not fully T7.5 obviously, but I don't think a bunch of blues would cut it. This is all based on observation really. Feel free to smack it down if it's untrue.

I loved the video. Very well executed and I can't wait to try it out myself.

2 questions from my end:
Have you managed to do this with another group combo? I'm wondering how much more complex it can get without 2 Divine Shields and 2 Guardian Spirits.[/*:m:1mbpej64]
Do the priests find the fight anymore challenging with the 6 sec CD imposed on CoH?[/*:m:1mbpej64]
Thanks guys! <3

[Protec]

We did it with some caster combos and 2 healers too. Was much easier with a caster setup than with a meele setup. You can easily outgear the encounter, on our firstkill i didnt even had one t7 piece and could easily heal it in terms of mana management. Just took a bit practice.

[Sashra]

Greetings Method.
What do you think about warrior tank on Sartharion? I've watched one video, there was tank warrior and he had only 28k (with debuff).

[Protec]

We farmed sarth10 3dr with a warrior tanking sartharion and caster setup 2 healers

[qcor]

Greetings :)

I have few questions about sarth10 3d. After about 80 wipes I'm running out of ideas how to improve our performance. Few facts first just to show the general idea:

- MT = druid 51k hp (no, we dont have DK tank :( )
- OT = pala 38k hp (me)
- holy priest + resto sham
- elemental, fire, balance, affi, retri and some 'random' caster (depends on who is online atm)

good attempts timeline:
- first wave
- heroism
- tenebron dies about the same time as 2nd drake lands
- aoe (whelps + elementals)
- 3rd drake lands when 2nd has about 50% hp
- this is when shit hits the fan

Most common problem is that DPS is slowing down because ppl are killing themselves cause of debuff. Natural consequence of that is death of MT because of lack of long cooldowns to save him. Usually we have a plan for 4 flame breaths (am I missing something or on 10man raid its just impossible to have more?)

Second problem is that this encounter seems to be very random to me and tbh I have no idea how to make it more stable. As an OT I find it quite hard to do all of that at same time:
1) nuke tenebron with all I got (to maintain agro when heroism comes in. raid buffs are set for casters so my threat is lower than it should be but we can handle it by using 2 HoS on top dps'ers)
2) taunt all fire elementals while dragging tenebron to next landing spot ( each taunt is a loss of time = less agro on drake )
3) cast consecration near portal ( that is a real pain in the ass cause whelps usually spawn during fire wall or just before/after it)
4) taunt all whelps that ran away from consecration (its raidus is not that great :( sometimes I agro them all, but usually about 3 of them run to one of healers)
5) catch 2nd drake while still taunting all elementals and whelps that ran away

Maybe its just me... maybe I just SUCK... but I rly have trouble when there are 3-4 lose elementals just after first weave, then even more when whelps spawn. I'm just running out of taunts cooldowns to grab all that shit, not to mention that all that greatly lowers my tps on drakes.

You guys have much more experience so I'd love to hear some advice. Especially how to handle fire elementals (in 2 tanks version)

P.S. Just out of pure curiosity - how much dps (average, with casters raid buffs set) your casters do?