• Q&A: 10man raiding and 25man preference?

    Time for another quick Q&A with the members of Method! If you have a particular question you would like Method to answer in a future Q&A then please post below and we will see what we can do. This time around the question was;

    Q: There is a rise in the number of 10man raiding guilds, what are your thoughts on 10man raiding and why do you prefer 25man?

    Owld (Druid)
    Being better than 24 people is way more satisfactory than 9.

    Rogerbrown (Hunter)
    I prefer 25man raiding because blizzard design of bosses works much better usually in a 25man scenario (working as intended). So boss mechanics is the first thing.

    Then you have loots that are much more easily distributed in a 25man raid instead of 10man.

    Another thing I dislike about 10man raiding is how fragile they are, meaning if 1 guy fucks up its pretty much game over, and you only have 1 battle rez. On the other hand you see many 25man raids kill a boss with 20 people alive. You almost never see a 10man guild kill it with 7 alive (not talking about last 5%, more like last ~25%).

    Also, its kind of silly trying to compete for rank 1 as a 10man guild, since it requires having so many alts dependant on encounter and you basically need to be 'lucky' to have a good roster for each progress. Not to mention the top level competition has always been 25man. Feels like 25man is Champion's League and 10man is Europa League.

    Still, I see 10man is an enjoyable and refreshing way to play after progress is over, with alts or w/e. It has a feeling of something new and there usually is a more comfortable feeling in a 10man raid. So I see it more as a casual thing to do.

    Zkall (Druid)

    Personally i prefer 25 man because there is a greater feeling of teamwork when your playing with 25 people, and the fights feel more epic thus fun. Also 10 man raiding will allways have the problems of setups which makes it annoying to setup.

    Mancy (Mage)
    10man raiding is like competing in the special olympics.

    Hentrenson (Hunter)
    My experience with 10 man raiding so far is that they are more intimate, so if you just want to have fun as a group of friends it is an ideal solution for this. Personally i prefer to play in 25 man raiding because I simply think its more fun. 25 man raiding is "serious business" and 10 man is "lets have a beer and have fun".

    Sicka (Mage)
    I miss the days when the loots and achievements was actually different from 10m and 25m, 10mans feels like its the same as 2vs2 in Arena, its fun with friends etc but shouldnt be competetive. 10 mans are great if you wanna play with friends/old guildies, but not much more than that. No disrespect to serious 10man guilds out there, but its simply not the same.

    As a sidenote, Loots in 10mans are a stupid. Esp nowadays when there is random shared bossloot.

    Aphrael (Druid - trial)
    I lead a serious 10man guild before going pro and i agree with Hentrenson that it's more intimate. One of the major aspects is class and spec. Classes like paladins or druids are gold due to being able to switch spec's and cover all 3 roles. There is a lot less specialization in 10man and shit players stand out a lot easier. Blatty mentioned last night that 25man sometimes carries bad players, and i agree.

    One MAJOR issue that people don't notice is player distribution. Putting 1 extra person in the air on alysrazor on 25man gives you a 10-15% damage boost on her, putting up 1 extra player on 10man gives you a 50% damage boost. Same thing goes for healers. 6healing or 7healing Warlord Zon'ozz makes a tiny difference compared to 2healing or 3healing it on 10man.

    Artzie (Priest)
    25man gives a better challenge, 10man was always low-tuned(with exception being 2-3 fights from wotlk until now) and depended on setups mostly.

    Strydem (Paladin)
    I think most of hardcore players chooses 25 man guilds just because there is no other options. 10 man guilds are not popular enough now. most of those guilds are formed from separated/scattered members of "big" guilds and lives not too long. i had a chance to kill madness of deathwing with Intervantion (top3 10 man) on my priest, and you know there was only 6 players from this guild in a raid, rest were invited from others. so, some of those 10 man guilds is not a Guild realy, i'd like to call it "static raid" or smth.

    But, i like to raid in 10 man. i think Blizzard should pay a bit more attention to these raids (make different loot, as it was in Ulduar, add some more prestigeous encounters - hello Sartarion)
    my vision of perfect 10 man raid:
    it consists of 10 players only. with unlimited motivation and dedication ofc :) every member should have 2-3 characters (different classes, but the same role) able to join progress raid as soon as raid decides to change class setup. i think it's more hardcode than keep some memebers on bench, like most of 25 raids does.

    Also it's probably good idea to make some encounters much harder in 25 man and others in 10 man. this will probably force hardcore guild to keep two raid (10 and 25) to achive maximum progress when new content starts.

    Zetti (Shaman trial)
    I agree with the ideas mentioned above, but from a restoration healing perspective, I would add the fact that there is also a slight different in the playstyle/role you have in raids. In a 10-man your interruptions as a healer may be more vital on some bosses because of the limited amount of players in a raid that can interrupt effectively. Also the usage of spells like Healing Rain or other major aoe heals can be questionable whether to use them on some occasions in a 10-man as there are not enough players standing in them to make the spells useful. This varies a lot though.

    Personally I prefer 25-man raiding simply because there are 15 additional players you need to work with as a team, which is impressive. Adding the difficulty level between 10 and 25 man.

    Zuggie (Mage)
    I think that 10man can be challenging on some encounters and in general it feels like you get a bigger "punishment" for fucking up, since loosing a player is like loosing 10% of the raid (kinda). But with that said, I still think 25man is more challenging since you have more people that needs to work together. Positioning can also be more of a challenge on 25man due to limited space on some encounters. All in all, I enjoy 25man mostly because there're more people involved in bringing down the boss and it also gives more of a feel to the whole "raid of adventures bringing down a huge and powerful boss" (yes RP, i know!)

    Treckie (Paladin)
    The wow community still seems to be more interested in the 25man race, but the 10man scene has seen a lot of improvements with the changes blizzard implemented in Cataclysm.
    For me whats most interesting is what the general community is interested in as well.
    And should that shift towards 10man > 25man, things would turn out a lot different.
    There has already been some shifts like this where 10man is considered to be the "real" raiding size and 25man just something on the side, but i dont really see that happening until blizzard intentionally makes 25man easier for the sake of being easier.
    Blizzard can try all they want, but they are never going to get the balancing right for 10man and 25man to be equal in terms of skill required, certain fight mechanics are always going to tip the balance.

    Class stacking is also a problem, but its far from limited to only 10man.
    You can obviously class stack in 25man as well, but the roster you would need for total optimal class stacking would be insane.
    If a pure 10man guild tries to class stack, they would also need a bigger roster than just 10people, but it would still be "easier" make the perfect setup for a certain boss during progress, not taking into account that its easier finding 10people who can play than 25.
    If you were to have a roster of a 25man guild, but raiding 10man, you would always be able to use the "perfect" setup but its hard keeping 25+ people interested in running a 10man, just like having about 60people available of the proper skill to raid 25man would be a bit unrealistic.

    I love doing 10mans as they are easier to get together, and if you dont have 24 friends on a server, its much more fun running a 10man with a few people you know, than a 25man if you only know a few, so the option should definitely be there, but as for hardcore progress, you really cant just merge the 10 and 25man kills as if they were the same difficulty.
    I dont see an issue with loot being the same but i know some have very strong feelings about it (honestly i dont really care what others do, it doesnt really affect me), that said, id still welcome the idea of having same gear with different looks (like pvp currently has) for the different raid sizes, and an easier way to see in what size your kills have actually been on.
    The raid sizes will always be different, and making it hard to see what size you have raided in before, does not remove that issue.
Show News Archive