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  • Scene News: LFR exploiting?

    There is currently massive 'drama' surrounding what is being termed "LFR exploiting" - threads with thousands of posts are open on mmo-champion, the official forums and IRC is actively discussing the topic! #method @ quakenet.

    So what is "LFR exploiting" and is it actually exploiting?
    LFR basically works as follows; you join LFR with your character and upon killing a boss for the FIRST time you are eligible to receive the loot drops - any additional kills of the same boss within the same weekly reset of LFR will not allow you to roll on/receive loot.

    Unfortunately Blizzard overlooked some scenarios and if you log your character out OR re-enter the instance AFTER a boss has been killed you will be able to loot that boss subsequent times (after already being 'loot saved' from your first kill). Despite the item levels in LFR being pretty low (384), this exploit allows the advantage of gaining valuable set bonuses and trinkets on certain classes.

    Currently the situation is as follows; multiple top guilds have apparently made use of this bug to gain the mentioned above. These guilds were basically presented with two choices on Wednesday 4.3 release;
    1. Ignore the obvious bug and continue the LFR farm without looting the items, putting themselves at a disadvantage against their competition.
    2. Utilise the bug, get their set bonuses and trinkets and stay on level with the competition and possibly risk the consequences from Blizzard.

    The majority chose to use option 2 and the key word from the above is "risk", in the past we have seen multiple bugs in raiding and those that made use of these bugs received minimal punishment from Blizzard (if any at all). I can assure you that the majority of raiders who made use of this bug are expecting a minimal tap on the hand punishment. The risk vs return was therefore seen as good by the top guilds, and the scales just further sway off the chart when you also see other top guilds already using the bug - there was no question for the majority, it was a pre-determined decision, you must be on a level playing field to remain competitive (winner or loser?).

    I can speak for Method in saying that we are disappointed that yet another obvious bug has popped up in regards to progress raiding (or rather preparation).

    So what does Blizzard have to say on the topic?



    What are your thoughts? Is this the fault of Blizzard for overlooking yet another large bug that impacts raiding - or is this the fault of the raiders taking advantage of the bug to remain competitive? Either way everyone will just have to sit back and wait to see what Blizzard do to address the issue.
    Comments 66 Comments
    1. Padmais's Avatar
      Padmais -
      1) Blizzard's fault obviously.
      2) When you learn about this bug, you can report it and expect Blizzard to take actions against the guild(s) who used it, but, what if they don't do anything (which is, as stated here, the most common answer) ? Getting back to the "risk" notion, it is clear that you "have to risk it" and if sanctions are taken, everyone will be on the same level.
    1. Helaem's Avatar
      Helaem -
      Are/Have Method used this "exploit"?
    1. sco's Avatar
      sco -
      What Padmay said, but also the time is would take Blizzard to address this report is completely unknown. Guilds have known about it since Tuesday or earlier and only now do we get blue posts on Friday - this is not good enough.
    1. Sien's Avatar
      Sien -
      I would've hoped, especially with such a large patch that Blizzard would ensure absolute integrity before release. Should there be consequence, I believe a ban would be un-just considering the amount of guilds involved. The very least you can expect is the equipment to be purged. Sadly.

      What frustrates me more, as a PvE player myself although not as such a level as yourselves, Scott, is the very fact content still remains to be released with lack of 'proper' testing. After the recent Ragnaros HC nerfs, ideally this should've been hotfixed straight away if the encounter, I quote "wasn't playing out as intended".

      There have been various episodes over the years, more memorable ones include 'Sinestra 1-Shot' by Paragon and Dark Simulacrum.(Although this was reported straight away! for fear of reprisal) Hotfixed, no bans. But also 'Lich King platforms' by Ensidia, hotfixed and the guild banned.

      Where is the line, Blizzard?

      Despite killing Deathwing on regular mode already - and a legit kill at that, the fight is still full of bugs, aspects not being assaulted, blood failing to spawn and thats without the mention of 'The Chin' laughing at you in Phase2. Will the guilds having not legit kills have their achievements and equipment removed due to exploiting failed game mechanics?

      The LFR situation is no different. Another flawed mechanic in the game which has not been fully covered or tested and players are penalised. I'm still a full supporter of the game after a long 7 years of play, but come on. Honestly? E-Sport is growing and growing, for the gamers involved to the gamers who spectate in the hardcore race, these sorts of issues are not fun nor entertaining.
    1. Stina's Avatar
      Stina -
      trying to get Rogers attention, Sien? ;)

    1. Sien's Avatar
      Sien -
      Stina has boobs.
    1. Stina's Avatar
      Stina -
      Orly
    1. Sien's Avatar
      Sien -
      Stina stop trolling.
    1. Mihir's Avatar
      Mihir -
      Missing option 3: Report the issue to Blizzard so it can be fixed quickly and the race stays exploit-free. Or is being honest/honorable something that isn't even considered anymore...
    1. Sparkuggz's Avatar
      Sparkuggz -
      That's why it was fixed within 24 hours, hm? : )
    1. Padmais's Avatar
      Padmais -
      Mihir: Read this,

      2) When you learn about this bug, you can report it and expect Blizzard to take actions against the guild(s) who used it, but, what if they don't do anything (which is, as stated here, the most common answer) ? Getting back to the "risk" notion, it is clear that you "have to risk it" and if sanctions are taken, everyone will be on the same level.
    1. Meatloaf's Avatar
      Meatloaf -
      To be honest you exploited and trying to justify it by claiming you followed the crowd is plain daft, much like bullying someone at school would have been because your peers were, it doesn't make it right irregardless of how many guilds are doing the same thing. None of you outside the top "X" have given any consideration to the 1000's of other guilds going about their business in an honest way, for some its not about the race but the taking part.

      Didn't you make a big post on this front page about the Stars saga and how it was unfair Sportsmanship, how is this different exactly? This time round theres slightly more of you trying to gain an unfair advantage so it's acceptable? Sorry i don't buy that.

      Yes Blizzard fucked up, but in fairness LFR was available on PTR and i'm sure hundreds of people tested it and it wasn't picked up on, human error is human error. You could have reported it at the first available opportunity and hoped as it is about to be, dealt with.

      From a personal perspective i'd have given you much more kudos for not being a sheep and finishing the race fairly, instead you've gone and put a big ol' dent in your reputation and how you're percieved.

      Sure your sponsors are pleased with you right now this is probably exactly what they didn't want to see in your first year of sponsorship. Promoting professional gaming gear through lets face it a "bunch of cheats" who knowingly exploited ./facepalm. So much for the good honest race.

      You tried to put yourself weeks infront of the competition or atleast some of them. I think they should take away your lock-out this week thus preventing you from doing Heroics the next. I see Paragon have scurried to do normal 25 since the news. Be nice to see if you could still come out on top at a disadvantage the opposite of what you tried to gain.
    1. Meatloaf's Avatar
      Meatloaf -
      Forgot to add best of luck whatever punishment you recieve.
    1. Sien's Avatar
      Sien -
      Meatloaf..

      2) When you learn about this bug, you can report it and expect Blizzard to take actions against the guild(s) who used it, but, what if they don't do anything (which is, as stated here, the most common answer) ? Getting back to the "risk" notion, it is clear that you "have to risk it" and if sanctions are taken, everyone will be on the same level.
      This isn't a Blizzard stab at the big guilds, to be quite frank. The gear isn't going to make a difference between Method taking #1 and generic guild X taking #1. Consider the high-end PvE race as a difference community to the regular raiding community, in the same aspect we would consider the regular raiding community different to the casual raiding community.

      Had Paragon, Vodka, Blood Legion and Carthage chosen to do this alone and had Blizzard not acted, well there would then be a very disadvantaged community. Sometimes you have to fight dirty.
    1. Stylish's Avatar
      Stylish -
      This is what the game has become. People abusing bugs because other people might do the same. I don't know whats worse. People abusing systems to get advantages and then creating excuses, or blizzard continuesly failing at everything. Just another sign to find a new game to compete in really.

      Of all the bugs/exploits mentioned above, this must be one of the worst ones. Any guild that hasn't used this exploit won't stand a chance against people who have. One reason alone being how 4part is scaling in DPS, even if it is only 384 item level.
    1. Sparkuggz's Avatar
      Sparkuggz -
      I've exploited Doomguard since patch 4.2, because i knew there was a bug that mastery stacked x3 and therefore made my Doomguard do so much damage that it could carry burst DPS for specefic fights. Now every warlock in the whole wide world started to play demonology because of this, and everyone stacked heavy mastery.

      It was a flaw in the game, and despite Blizzard knowing about it it took them a patch, A PATCH to fix it?

      I abused the fuck out of it, and i knew all about it. Should i stop playing Demonology or what do you want be to do?

      Guess ill be banned for a whole patch :\

      Just think about how many "cheats" and "exploits" as everyone like to call it there is used on a daily basis. Do you see everyone having to vouch their opinions about those?
    1. Nyae's Avatar
      Nyae -
      Not because you did something mean everyone copied you :D Does that boost your EGO assuming that every warlock in the world copied you ? (just curious)

      And there is a difference in abusing a known bug by blizzard and an unknown one the day of the release to clearly gain an advantage in the PvE Race :).

      Have fun "cheating" or "exploiting" !

      Whatever suit your mind ^^

      edit: I notice that Method spirit changed quite a lot since Vanilla & BC :) It's a shame tho, I got nothing against Sco and all the new wanabe old school raiders that don't know anything about old school raiding days. Where did the discipline amongst the members go ?

      Trashtalking me will really not help with Razer sponsorship.
    1. Sparkuggz's Avatar
      Sparkuggz -
      I think you misunderstood about the Doomguard. I said that this bug was used by everyone, and i indeed used it myself knowing it was a bug. I did not say i "figured it out" or anything along those lines.

      This LFR bug wasn't unkown, why do you think over 1.000 of people used it? If it had stayed in the game for a whole patch, how many would have used the bug?

      I'm not talking about wrong or right, im simply saying people need to get of their high horses, this is a game, not life or death. People have abused known bugs in the game since day of dawn, so calling this out to be anything special is beyond silly.

      Threating us in your comment, really? Really? I dont get why would anyone trash talk you?
    1. Nyae's Avatar
      Nyae -
      Some people from Method are known for trashtalking other people. I won't point out names. I was only being preventive. Bad judgment call from my part, sorry about it.

      Why would padmay (one of your guild member, correct me if I'm wrong) state his comment, if the bug was already known ? Doesnt make any sense to me.

      You go on PTR to find bugs and not report them ? Did everyone in method report this known bug as they should have been doing ? (that's the point of a server test, people aren't forced to go in it to test stuff, it's only for help Blizzard make the game better before they release it.)

      Do you have a list of people to assume 1000 people used it ? Why would a blizzard employee said they work on a "hot" fix ?

      Edit: Based on what you said, you already knew about these exploit (and the 1K people too), and Method still exploited right ?

      Yes people may have abused known bugs since the release of WoW (I myself used the reckbomber bug abuse to boost myself to r14 back in Vanilla) I didn't get banned too as I wasn't the only one in the world using it. But lots of people have been banned for less that what your guild and other top guild did.

      Do you consider yourself superior to others players based on your current guild status ?

      Is it still really silly ? or are you just afraid of being permanent ban or ban for few days ?

      Would really appreciate an answer to those questions.
    1. Padmais's Avatar
      Padmais -
      I didn't say the bug was known from the PTR. It was known shortly after the 1st guild that used it leaked it.
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